Soundpost 2mm behind bridge? in Forum

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DrTodd	Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?		Lead	[-]
Active CelloChatter Posts: 161 Sep 2 09 9:47 PM	Tags : None I just got around to measuring the location of my soundpost. It is only 2mm behind the bridge. Is anybody aware of any reason why somebody would put it so close rather than the recommended 8-12mm?
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mamawelder		#21	[url]	[-]
Reticent CelloChatter Posts: 2518 Sep 9 09 7:59 PM Supporting CelloChatter (2003)	Perhaps there, but you would mount it and then bow to check pitch. I also find some spots make the open D string sound big and hollow so I scoot it along in tiny increments until the open D sounds normal. If you can get it to sound normal and dial one side of the suppressor to F# your problem should be solved. ~Linda
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Mike Danielson	Get a dental mirror and the correct soundpost setter	#22	[url]	[-]
Active CelloChatter Posts: 153 Sep 9 09 10:00 PM	You need the two tools mentioned, above. The post must fit at the top and bottom--that is the purpose of the mirror--observation. Start with the soundpost about 10 mm away from the bridge, not 2 mm--10 mm is closer to the norm. Make adjustments and listen. You are going to need to reduce the string tension before you make a big move on the post. See this as an opportunity (science project?) to explore the effect of soundpost position on sound. The post is supposed to be perpendicular to the top and back. The post does more than just connect and synchronize the top and back plates--it is much more complex than that. Forget this idea that the cello will be healthier the closer the post is to the bridge (I saw where you posted this on Maestronet and got that as a reply). Having the post 2-3 mm inside the bridge foot is just fine. My experience is the better the cello, the less effect the position has on the sound. Position will have a small effect on the wolf but remember that the wolf is generated on the bassbar side of the instrument. On the issue of wolf eliminator, place it initially at the 1/4 afterlength position (centered), closest to the bridge. Play and move it as needed to control the wolf. The problem with the type of wolf eliminator (brass with a machined step) mentioned earlier is that it cannot be moved while the string is up to tension--and you will need to move it to find the best position. And the position changes from time to time (seasonal?) and when you change brands of strings. Mike D
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Andrew Victor		#23	[url]	[-]
Reticent CelloChatter Posts: 5182 Sep 10 09 8:02 AM Supporting CelloChatter	Much as I admire the work in ingenuity of David Bice, I have come to prefer the Lup-X wolf eliminator ( http://www.swstrings.com/...=LUPXC&subcategory=Cello ) to those Bice invented. I have been through most wolf eliminators that are available (inmlcuding body mounted ones) and the Lup-X has solved the life-long problems of some of my cellos better than any others. Another factor regarding the ASL depends on whether you are using fine tuners on your tailpiece and whether these are integral parts of the tailpiece or the heavy ones added on to a simple wooded tailpiece. If the latter is the case, your ASLs may not be optimized for tone. The fact that you are bowing an F# on an ASL seems to me an indication that the length of the ASL is not optimal or you have added-on fine tuners. These can be a problem for some cellos (not all). Typically the "ring tone" of a properly tuned ASL is the 2nd octave harmonic of the next higher string, because the optimal ASL is 1/6 the length of the string from nut to bridge. Andy
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bobmrbassman		#24	[url]	[-]
Active CelloChatter Posts: 286 Sep 10 09 12:42 PM	I was wrong on the note on the G ASL, I was way off, I checked it with an electronic tuner and it is a B without a mechanical fine tuner installed.
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inwerp		#25	[url]	[-]
New CelloChatter Posts: 11 Oct 19 09 12:18 PM	thank you all for this tread as i got some idea to place it correctly. just lost my sound post(replaced tailpiece and sp just fell down when i pulled down my strings ) as i had no time to visit my cello repairer, i decided to place it back there by my own. i do not recommend anyone to repeat it - you can probably damage your F-holes or set it incorrectly so it'll fall down just after you'll tune your strings (it's very bad thing to happen as strings tension can crack your deck) anyway, maybe someone will find this useful i did it without any instruments except aluminum wire, hammer, metal file and L-shaped bicycle wrench :-) bend wire about 50°, use hummer to flatten tip, file to sharpen it. so you have first sp setter (i used this image to bend wire) try to sharped your tip such way so it could steady hold your sp hummer side of the setter is more difficult thing to imitate. i connected my wrench to other side of the wire and got something like i need(indeed, L-shape is 90°, but it's not such a big problem if you'll knock sp by rotating your wrench) i also used plaster to protect my f-holes edges watch this video to understand the process: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAeFPET-ueU here goes image from wikipedia: image from first page of this tread: so, first thing is to tune all strings down, just to make them hold the bridge(it's actually first thing you have to do if you are out of sp) put your wire into the special hole in the sp, hole should be at the lover side of the post then try to place it with your trough the upper strings side F-hole. use flashlight to clearly see what you're doing. you'll probably see trace of sp at the lower deck, so it would be easier to find right place. then, slightly tighten a-sting(around normal C or G - string tone) to fasten sp. then use your "hummer" to correct sp position. gently knock it in the lower and higher parts (don't try to knock in the middle i found good way to check if sp is placed correctly by knocking to the low deck - if you clearly hear all stings responding to your knocks - bridge is almost on it's place i will visit my cello repair master as soon as i can to check if he can place it better
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Andrew Victor		#26	[url]	[-]
Reticent CelloChatter Posts: 5182 Oct 19 09 5:07 PM Supporting CelloChatter	Be aware that you may get better suppression by placing the suppressor on the C-string ASL. But, the principle you cite is correct, you want to place it to get a matching resonance on the ASL. (It may sound like an harmonic up there, but it's not.) Andy
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paulgoelz		#27	[url]	[-]
Active CelloChatter Posts: 403 Oct 20 09 9:36 AM Active CelloChatter	Any tricks to getting the sound post vertical without removing the tail piece and sighting through the end pin hole? I can visualize a couple custom made tools that would allow me to measure from the outer edges of the top and bottom, but is there a simpler method I'm overlooking? Paul Paul Goelz Rochester Hills, MI USA paul at pgoelz dot com www.pgoelz.com
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DrTodd		#28	[url]	[-]
Active CelloChatter Posts: 161 Oct 20 09 9:56 AM	I would think that if the top and bottom of the post were properly carved to match the curvature of the top and the bottom that you could use a proper fit between the top and bottom as a proxy for vertical. If it is nearly vertical and the top and bottom fit well then I would think the fit is more important than being completely vertical. They sell something like dental mirrors that you can stick through the f-hole and check for fit against the top and bottom.
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paulgoelz		#29	[url]	[-]
Active CelloChatter Posts: 403 Oct 20 09 10:41 AM Active CelloChatter	I asked because I am playing with a sound post in a cello where I am not 100% sure the post was ever shaped correctly. I can check the fit, but in this case it does not really tell me anything about the angle of the post. I can always take it back to the shop that set it in the first place, but I'm trying to learn something about the process. Its easy to check if you sight through the end pin hole but I haven't found an easy way to check verticality through the F holes. I'm sure that with experience it becomes easier to judge by eye, but at least for now, I find that the angles involved when sighting through the F hole make it very difficult to judge. Paul Paul Goelz Rochester Hills, MI USA paul at pgoelz dot com www.pgoelz.com
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bobmrbassman		#30	[url]	[-]
Active CelloChatter Posts: 286 Oct 20 09 4:42 PM	To me since I have already loosened all the strings, I might as well go all the way and take the bridge, tail piece, and end pin off then look through the end pin hole. There are several videos on the subject on youtube. Just search sound post cello
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mamawelder		#31	[url]	[-]
Reticent CelloChatter Posts: 2518 Oct 20 09 5:15 PM Supporting CelloChatter (2003)	Usually for F# I find about 1/2" to 5/8" from the bridge on the G string works. ~Linda
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Mike Danielson	Here's a hint to determine whether the post is vertical without looking through the endpin hole	#32	[url]	[-]
Active CelloChatter Posts: 153 Oct 20 09 10:36 PM	Hint: notice that there is a centerline on both the top and back. Now, you should be able to work it out for yourselves. I am talking about the east/west direction of the post (the neck is north). To determine the quality of fit, you must use a dental mirror to see all around the post. Adjusting a soundpost can take a lot of patience. Another hint: the angles at the top and bottom of the post are usually different. This luthier stuff can get complicated. Periodically, some people give me a hard time about it--it seems so easy that their kid should be able to do it. I always ask them if they take out their own appendix--that usually does it. regards Mike D
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Replies

Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 2 09 9:47 PM	DrTodd
re	Sep 3 09 4:46 AM	cazobg
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 3 09 1:22 PM	mamawelder
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 3 09 3:06 PM	bobmrbassman
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 3 09 5:13 PM	mamawelder
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 3 09 6:11 PM	bobmrbassman
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 3 09 3:26 PM	DrTodd
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 3 09 8:19 PM	DrTodd
How Did You Do That ?	Sep 3 09 8:42 PM	fender
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 3 09 9:19 PM	DrTodd
Thanks DrTodd	Sep 4 09 8:10 PM	fender
Was it a fairly new cello	Sep 5 09 1:00 AM	jazzman
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 5 09 9:16 AM	DrTodd
Soundpost diameter?	Sep 3 09 5:18 PM	PseudoCellist
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 3 09 8:13 PM	DrTodd
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 5 09 2:37 AM	JSP007
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 5 09 8:30 PM	bobmrbassman
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 6 09 8:47 AM	mamawelder
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 6 09 11:54 AM	bobmrbassman
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 6 09 9:49 PM	mamawelder
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 9 09 10:19 AM	bobmrbassman
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 9 09 7:59 PM	mamawelder
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 10 09 8:02 AM	Andrew Victor
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Oct 19 09 5:07 PM	Andrew Victor
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Oct 20 09 5:15 PM	mamawelder
Get a dental mirror and the correct soundpost setter	Sep 9 09 10:00 PM	Mike Danielson
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Sep 10 09 12:42 PM	bobmrbassman
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Oct 19 09 12:18 PM	inwerp
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Oct 20 09 9:36 AM	paulgoelz
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Oct 20 09 9:56 AM	DrTodd
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Oct 20 09 10:41 AM	paulgoelz
Here's a hint to determine whether the post is vertical without looking through the endpin hole	Oct 20 09 10:36 PM	Mike Danielson
Re: Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?	Oct 20 09 4:42 PM	bobmrbassman

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Soundpost 2mm behind bridge?

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